paikea

The lengths to which some people will go...

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Don't you just love how everything can be excused by religion..sigh
yes, i think they get off rather too scot free for my liking, Worker!
Bah! Humbug! A pox on all hypocrites.

You might have something to say about my latest post.
I think the Christian Church is getting to the point where it is sadly becoming a joke and is its own worse enemy. I don't think there is any other religion which has been split into so many denominations and sects and they just keep on multiplying. However in some cases this is a good thing, especially when more accepting. loving and compassionate Christians split from the pack and form a new church.

As much as I do not agree with the stand that many churches have taken in regards to both gay rights and women's rights and equality, we do have to accept that these churches do have a right to interpret the scripture as they see fit and therefore be free not to accept the equality of both women and lgbt people. It actually pains me greatly to say what I have just said, as it just seems so wrong to treat people in such a manner.

One of the arguments which churches state in regards to opposing gay marriage is that if the state allows it (and it should) then churches will be forced to conduct gay marriages against their will and against their interpretation of scripture (an interpretation which I believe is flawed). So we do have to be careful not to reinforce their arguments when we protest for equal rights. Also they are correct they cannot be forced to accept gay marriage or a heterosexual marriage conducted by a civil servant/celebrant or be made to accept divorce or accept women in the clergy. To enforce such action would be a violation of the separation of church and state. I also recognise that it does seem wrong that churches are able to get away with discrimination which is not allowed in work places and in other civil areas of life . Thankfully there is at least the option of leaving a particular church who has draconian views.

I think the best way to stand up to these church groups is to do it by reducing patronage of such churches and thereby starving them of finances. If your church is discriminating against you whether it be due to sexual orientation, gender or by some other means don't just sit there and take it. If you wish to remain part of the faith then let your church know you are not happy and if it is obvious there will not be any hope of change, then move to a more accepting church and the same goes if you are not happy with how your church is treating others.

It amazes me that there are women who just accept that their rank in their church is of a lower standing when compared to a man. I cannot believe that they accept that their loving Jesus would head a new religion which did not see women as equals, it flies completely in the face of what Jesus supposedly represented. Come on women think about it, as it does not make sense. It was men who put the Bible together and don't think that these men did not have an agenda when they chose the books which went into the Bible and don't think the actual scripture has not been altered either.

Upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

That is, I'd like to build my church upon this rock but for the next few millenium the rock will be too busy being thrown at anyone who isn't white enough and right enough for those who are not bright enough.

Yes, yes, I know I said I was giving you a commandment that you love one another as I have loved you. Ignore the bits that don't suit you, okay? Call hatred love; mouth platitudes even you don't believe in like 'love the sinner, hate the sin' while openly militating against anyone you don't like. Make sure you sit in judgment because me and Dad are a bit busy at the moment so you just go ahead and act like Lucifer. You may as well, you'll be joining him when you croak, fuckers.
Come to our place Borg we don't have rocks where i live - flat river plains with no rocks to hurl at people. I guess if they bring stoning back into the judicial system they will have to import the rocks and stones in ;-)
a pox - hmm - i'm thinking that the "pox" should be that they break out into rash every time they say something hypocritical - yes, that should keep them "in the pink" with Calamine lotion for quite some years:)
i must say, you quite flatter me with your symbiotic comments to my posts, Borg :)
and you needed to unload some stuff, Chezz? - much on your mind, lately? - i see we are of much the same mind, btw.

we do have to accept that these churches do have a right to interpret the scripture as they see fit and therefore be free not to accept the equality of both women and lgbt people

hmmm - "accept" may not be the word here - but maybe i can use "accept" in this manner

if these churches see fit to interpret their scriptures in such a bigoted and prejudiced manner, then hopefully someday, they will "accept" the fact that i think they're horrid and despicable, and deserve none of my tolerance or respect - i'm through having to respect the views of these religious organization just because people think they all deserve respect just for being religion - nope, sorry - not happening any more - i cannot let them get away with such behavior - so, right here, i am saying - if they can't treat their fellow humans with decency and fairness, than all bets are off!

(and i know you mostly agree with me:)
Oh I have a load of stuff to unload but finding the time to do so is an issue.

Yeah accept it in that they have a right to have their opinion and I will politely accept their opinion, but I won't necessarily agree with it. However having said that, I will be throwing my support behind those who are prepared to have a rethink of their views in favour of a more accepting and a less discriminating viewpoint in respect to all civil rights issues.

I would also like to say I will not respect any one's opinion if it is one of hate and it causes harm to individuals or groups of our society. There is a limit to how accepting I am of people's opinions. No ideology whether it be religious or some other belief gets a free pass.

Believe it or not, I actually see this as a good sign. Rather than pretentious bigots being allowed to dictate church dogma, they have to leave the churchi n order to practive it. How many will actually leave? Fewer than you might think, I suspect. I think if you read what I have been reading on some religious blogs, you will ifnd that there are some people who are actually LOVINGLY religious. Who really do practice their true teachings of "Love they neighbour" that most religins nther unadulaterated forms preach. These people, too, are getting sick of the hypocrosy in theirorganised religions, but rather than leaving in disgust, they are changing their religious organisations from within! ASn dit's only the bigoted who donlt find that agood thing. These splinter actions will have a much smaller voice (unless they all unite, which of course would defeat the pupose of their elitist faction) in politics than the more benevolent churches which (hopefully) will remain. At least one can HOPE for this...Judging from what I have been observing, I see that as distinct possibility.

Believe it or not, I actually see this as a good sign.

i agree with you, Patricia - it is the minority who are breaking off - and the remaining - and, actually, these congregations who are leaving will make things much easier for the Episcopal church in general - to promote women, and perform marriages for everyone

i think it's just the idea that people do splinter off for the express purposes of catering to their prejudices that gets me - and that these splinter groups do have some "big brother" congregations in other countries they can emulate - even to emulate the Catholic church - i think someone mentioned in one of the articles

i guess, lately, i've been reading some comments on articles on Prop. 8 and on the rights of gays to get married that totally disgust me - this whole issue just gives me a giant stomach ache

I'm with you on all of that. But eventually sexism and racism will go the way of cavedwelling. (no references to Osama, though one might be apt) There is just less and less space in the world for this sort of hypocrisy as people communicate so openly and freely worldwide, on the internet. One of the reasons why the more dictatorial regimes want to censor it. They figure if the masses "know your enemy," they will discover he probably isn't their enemy after all. Gays and women included... ; )
At least the more "Christian" followers are catching a break. Hopefully they can get on with the God thing rather than the Hate thing.

Must be confusing for the "elites" though. Once you split with one lot you then have to cast around for other differences and select another bunch of folk to disagree with.

Busy busy busy.
I was raised Episcopalian and I say good riddance to the bigots.

Now, I'm an agnostic heathen.
yes, i agree, peter - busy busy busy - it's a never ending quest to keep finding people to discriminate against
hi Libertine;)

i was raised Catholic, then went to Methodist, Presbyterian and UCC - all before i was 17

i'm an atheist now - down with bigots - that Episcopalian branch is better off without them, yes
I don't know what to say anymore...sadly, it's probably because I'm not surprised
yeah - i know, Stephel :(

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